[Tagging] How to recognize memorial from monument?

[Daniel Koć]

Simple question, hard problem: how to recognize (1) memorial from (2)
monument?

Definitions on Wiki are not clear and I think they need some love to
make them easier to use in practice:

1) A feature for tagging smaller memorials, usually remembering special
persons, peoples lost their lives in the wars.
Memorials can be often found at public greens or cemeteries.

2) A memorial object, especially large (one can go inside, walk on or
through it) and made of stone, built to remember, show respect to a
person or group of people or to commemorate an event.
Monuments are often built in homage to past or present political /
military leaders or religious figures / deities.

So what is a deciding factor here:
a) size (all examples of monuments are 15+ m),
b) wartime/all other (however military leaders are sometimes also
causalities of war),
c) unknown and real people / widely known and legendary
d) being the landmark (statue in park is typically much less important
and visible than the same statue in the middle of a square)

or maybe it's just purely subjective choice?

It is important for me, because in Warsaw we have a lot of such places
and I like to have some uniformity in tagging across the whole city.

BTW: memorial can be war_memorial, but it can also be in the form of
statue, stone or any other type at the the same type, so it seems the
form and function are unfortunately mixed here.

[Joachim]

The size: If you can walk in it's a monument. There might be cases
where there is clearly enough space for many people but no provisions
have been made. Here I would compare to other monuments in
city/country.

Post by Daniel Koć
Simple question, hard problem: how to recognize (1) memorial from (2)
monument?
Definitions on Wiki are not clear and I think they need some love to make
1) A feature for tagging smaller memorials, usually remembering special
persons, peoples lost their lives in the wars.
Memorials can be often found at public greens or cemeteries.
2) A memorial object, especially large (one can go inside, walk on or
through it) and made of stone, built to remember, show respect to a person
or group of people or to commemorate an event.
Monuments are often built in homage to past or present political / military
leaders or religious figures / deities.
a) size (all examples of monuments are 15+ m),
b) wartime/all other (however military leaders are sometimes also
causalities of war),
c) unknown and real people / widely known and legendary
d) being the landmark (statue in park is typically much less important and
visible than the same statue in the middle of a square)
or maybe it's just purely subjective choice?
It is important for me, because in Warsaw we have a lot of such places and I
like to have some uniformity in tagging across the whole city.
BTW: memorial can be war_memorial, but it can also be in the form of statue,
stone or any other type at the the same type, so it seems the form and
function are unfortunately mixed here.
--
"The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags
down" [A. Cohen]
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[Janko Mihelić]

Monument is a large memorial. If you tag a monument with historic=memorial,
it's not wrong, but not precise.
If it is a statue, add tourism=artwork + artwork_type=sculpture + artist=*
+ artist:wikidata=* + start_date=* + material=* ....

Janko

Post by Joachim
The size: If you can walk in it's a monument. There might be cases
where there is clearly enough space for many people but no provisions
have been made. Here I would compare to other monuments in
city/country.

Post by Daniel Koć
Simple question, hard problem: how to recognize (1) memorial from (2)
monument?
Definitions on Wiki are not clear and I think they need some love to make
1) A feature for tagging smaller memorials, usually remembering special
persons, peoples lost their lives in the wars.
Memorials can be often found at public greens or cemeteries.
2) A memorial object, especially large (one can go inside, walk on or
through it) and made of stone, built to remember, show respect to a

person

Post by Daniel Koć
or group of people or to commemorate an event.
Monuments are often built in homage to past or present political /

military

Post by Daniel Koć
leaders or religious figures / deities.
a) size (all examples of monuments are 15+ m),
b) wartime/all other (however military leaders are sometimes also
causalities of war),
c) unknown and real people / widely known and legendary
d) being the landmark (statue in park is typically much less important

and

Post by Daniel Koć
visible than the same statue in the middle of a square)
or maybe it's just purely subjective choice?
It is important for me, because in Warsaw we have a lot of such places

and I

Post by Daniel Koć
like to have some uniformity in tagging across the whole city.
BTW: memorial can be war_memorial, but it can also be in the form of

statue,

Post by Daniel Koć
stone or any other type at the the same type, so it seems the form and
function are unfortunately mixed here.
--
"The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags
down" [A. Cohen]
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Tagging mailing list
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

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Tagging mailing list
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone
+1, basically these are similar features and there are no clear distinctive criteria to decide edge cases. The difference is size / importance: memorials are smaller. The walk into criterion is often useful but should not be seen too strict. E.g. this obelisk, weighting 455 tons and with 32 m height, IMHO is a monument and not just a memorial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateran_Obelisk
but it is completely massive and therefore not accessible in the inside. Similarly this monument is not just a memorial: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Rushmore

(FWIW, in osm this is currently a leisure=park ;-)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3508600 )

Also this seems to be a monument:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2222295
but currently it is tagged as memorial. If this current tagging was agreed on as preferred way of tagging we will have a hard time finding (bigger?) memorials that will be tagged as monuments....


cheers
Martin